KIZUNA

Shirin Sadjadpour (SS), Sophia Walker (SW), Alex Jania (AJ) (Kizuna Archive Team) interview with Kiyotaka Shishido (KS) (Photographer), Rie Sugai (RS) (Assistant)

 

SS: What made you become a photographer in the first place? 

 

KS: The reason I became a photographer was because I went to Hawaii when I was 25. I was looking for myself. I went to Hawaii in the 1980s and wondered what I was meant to do in life. I thought there must be a role for me, but instead of staying in Japan, I decided to go to America and to take a look at myself, so I went to Hawaii. I met a second-generation Japanese American who had experienced the war, and when I listened to his story, I found out that Japanese Americans had been discriminated against since Pearl Harbor, and had been put in internment camps. So they volunteered to fight for our country, the U.S., saying, “We are not spies for Japan, but we are fighting for our country, the U.S., against Nazi Germany on the European front to show our loyalty.” I met a man like that. And that’s when I decided to preserve these people throughout my life. I interviewed the photographer and told him that I wanted to preserve them. 

 

My father also lost his brother in the war. I heard about it when I was 9 years old, and in 1967, when I was 13 years old, I went to Aomori Prefecture in Japan to visit a U.S. Air Force base. It’s called Misawa Base. It still exists today. I was 13 years old and lived there for a month during my summer vacation, and the house next to my uncle’s was owned by a U.S. pilot. On the 10th day that I was there, the wife was crying. She was crying very loudly. When I asked her about it, she said, “He was an American pilot who died in Vietnam. He was killed in the war,” she told me. I felt that the war was very close to me. 

 

There was a Japanese man who came to visit him and wore an American military uniform and spoke in English with him. He was so funny, that after he came back from America, my uncle said to me, “Why does he speak English? Isn’t he Japanese?” I had accumulated a lot of knowledge from my childhood, and when I came to Japan at the age of 25 and met the Nisei, I felt my destiny. I felt that I had to document these people. That was my motivation and inspiration to become a photographer.

 

SS: This is a similar question, but can you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in the Kizuna project?

 

KS: It all started when I received a phone call from a Japanese photo critic, one of the leading photo critics in Japan. I received a call from him. And he said, “we are doing the Kizuna Project, and this is the second year we have done it.” The third time, I was asked if I could volunteer to take pictures.” So I replied, “Of course, I'll do it.”

 

RS: The photo critic was also from Sendai, wasn’t he? 

 

KS: He’s in Tokyo now. That’s when I was approached by him, and that’s how I got involved. It was the first time I provided photos for the Kizuna Project. After that, I provided photos of the disaster area, and in 2016, I was invited to participate in the Kizuna Project. 

 

SS: Thank you very much. Next, can you tell us a little bit about your own 3.11 experience? 

 

KS: That day, it happened the moment I came back from a job and after it was over, the two of us came back, made coffee, and drank it. That’s totally normal. Japan has a lot of earthquakes, but we don’t have earthquakes like that anymore. I was so surprised that I went out the front door and there was this 90-year-old maple tree. It was already bobbing up and down. And it was jumping. I couldn't stand still, so I remember getting down on the ground and settling down. The electricity was cut off, and when I turned on the car radio, I heard on the radio that 200 or 300 people had died on the beach. My first impression was, “What is going to happen to Japan now?”

 

RS: The office here is in the mountains, right? It’s very far from the ocean, and it’s in the mountains. Alex saw when he visited. It's a rather residential area, and there’s a sense of isolation down there, and there’s no TV connection, so the only information we got was from the radio, and there were times when we felt anxious, like, “I’m safe, but what's going on?” It was an anxious time.

 

SS: So how did you feel before, during, and after 3.11, having witnessed the changes yourself?

 

KS: After 3.11, lifelines started to be restored, especially along the Unbe River coast, but the first catastrophe occurred and the people in the sea were taken away. I also heard that a 10-meter swelling point made the sea invisible, and after that it became very difficult to catch fish. As for the environment of the city, we are far away from the sea, so there were some areas that were damaged by the earthquake, but they are being restored more and more.

 

If you go to the coast, you can see the speed of the recovery process is different. There are still some areas that are slow to recover, and the aftermath of the tsunami can be seen in the earthquakes. There are people who are living in other places because they can’t move forward due to the nuclear power plant. I heard that some of them had a hard time because they came from Fukushima.

 

In the midst of that kind of situation, we are still recovering. The repercussions keep coming. One of the reasons is that the environment is different from the one we have been living in until now, and the people living there are coping with the environment in a very different way, depending on the place and the degree of the earthquake damage. I started to feel more and more the energy of the people who were trying to move forward. As time went on.

 

RS: Before the earthquake, I had done some work shooting around ports in Tohoku, so I was quite familiar with Minatomachi. After the earthquake, when we went around the coastal areas together, it was a place that I remembered very well, but it also felt like a completely different place. Shishido-san is really good with roads, but even so, he would get lost and lose track of what was here, and I realized how much I lose track of things when it’s all been destroyed. Compared to the scale of the U.S., Japan is very small, but even so, the area that was hit by the tsunami was a very large area for the Japanese people, so I wondered how much effort the government would put into recovery since it was in Tohoku. It’s difficult. The number of people living in depopulated areas has become even smaller. As Shishido-san said earlier, the seawalls were cutting off the relationship between the elderly and the sea, and the people who have been living near the harbor for a long time are now saying, “I’m not going to live here if the seawalls are going to be 10 meters high.” I felt the change in our relationship with the sea. It was a little scary. It was a little scary, even when the two of us went and drove along the coast. The national government and the governor set the swell point at 10 meters, which is quite high. It was very hard to see.

 

AJ: I’d like to ask you a few questions next. What was it like working as a photographer in Japan after 3.11? 

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KS: I think it’s probably the same thing you all think. We all had trouble with our jobs. If you are stuck in a job, it naturally affects your life. The days continued to be very difficult. After a while, I started receiving requests from publishers in Tokyo to film the disaster area. So I started filming in the disaster area, and as well as visiting the disaster area, I started to leave other work behind.

 

I went to a place called Yuriage [in Natori-shi, Miyagi Prefecture] by car from Sendai on the second day after the earthquake, where the roads were so slippery that it was difficult to walk even with boots. The roads were blocked by boats, the roads were blocked over the sea and sky, houses were washed into the fields, and cars were all stuck upside down. It was unthinkable, violent. It was like watching a movie. The smell was like rotting fish, and I could see the faces of the people in distress, and I thought, “I can’t shoot this. I thought, “I can’t shoot this.” It was very, very difficult to photograph. Self-Defense Forces wrapped body after body in cloth and loaded it onto a truck. This was what it looked like. [Shishido-san shows an image he photographed]

 

I was not able to photograph the bodies of the dead, so I felt like I had to record this moment as a record of the Self-Defense Forces’ efforts to go into the disaster area and do so much with such little sleep. After that, I couldn't go to the disaster area. I was mentally damaged by the 360-degree view of what was happening in front of me. Even so, I still felt that I had to laugh. My Rie-chan and my wife made onigiri (rice balls), and we started shooting the disaster areas around 2 a.m., before dawn. One day, we went to Ishinomaki, Miyagi Prefecture. I came across this scene. The city of Ishinomaki was surrounded by this fog. When I saw this scene, I realized that the tsunami had hit the city, but now the fog from the sky was enveloping the city. That’s when I saw it. When I saw that, it looked as if souls, the souls of people who had died, were enveloping the city. When I saw this, my heart was filled with joy. In order to preserve the dignity of the deceased and to help the living move forward, I decided to take pictures as a way to leave something of them behind.

 

SS: Are all of your photographs monochrome?

 

KS: Color and monochrome.

 

AJ: Let’s move on to the next question. How did you choose your subjects when you were documenting the disaster and the affected areas? 

 

KS: It may be a Japanese way of thinking, but of course there are pictures that I think about in my head. When I walk around the disaster area, I see life and death. Life and death are mixed together. I really feel that unique atmosphere. This is when I choose how to take a picture. For example, this one is monochrome. [Shishido-san shows an image he photographed] There was a building in Onagawa that collapsed due to the tsunami, and there was a white curtain hanging down from the top. When I walked in, I could see the curtains swaying. It was the wind. When I saw it, I felt it was alive. It was as if the wind was telling me that there was a person here, and the swaying of the curtain made my heart skip a beat. I went straight to the curtain and took a picture of it moving, showing the power of the tsunami that destroyed the concrete that the curtain was hanging from, and even destroyed the ironware that came out of the concrete. In this way, I pointed my lens towards the people who died, towards the things that came to me naturally.

 

Another thing is that when I take pictures, I use digital technology for color, but for monochrome, I use these old Rolleiflex cameras that are 50 years old. These are also film cameras. You put the film in here, and this is how you take a picture. [Shishido-san demonstrates the process using his own Rolleiflex] This means that you are bowing to the other person. By doing this, communication was very difficult at that time. When I went to a certain place, this old lady’s house was burned down. The tsunami and the fire did it. The floor of her house was burned and there were many burnt things under the concrete foundation. I went there to greet her, but she was so engrossed in her work that the sight of her back filled my heart with emotion as I looked at her. I wondered how I should think about leaving this moment behind. I thought to myself, “This camera is good for bowing one’s head and showing respect to the other person like this.” I take monochrome pictures with this camera.

 

RS: People who know a lot about photography say that this is very Japanese. At the time of the earthquake, many photographers came from all over the world to take pictures of Tohoku. In the early days, the Self-Defense Forces couldn’t get there in time, which is very rare in Japan, and there were still bodies in many places. And there were many photographers from overseas who would point their lenses directly at the bodies to show the extent of the damage. As Shishido-san said, Japanese cameramen don’t tend to shoot the bodies directly. Shishido-san knows exactly what I’m talking about. It’s just a little bit Japanese, I guess.

 

AJ: That’s right. Well, the next question is still a bit relevant. As a photographer, what was your approach to interacting with your subjects right after the disaster, especially with those who have experienced such an emotional and devastating event?

 

KS: It overlaps a little with my earlier answer. I think that the deep sadness of the survivors can only be understood by the survivors themselves. I had to be creative in how I approached them. As I mentioned earlier, changing the camera from a 35mm digital to a Rolleiflex is one way to approach this. To lower your head. Another is that when you photograph people, you are photographing their faces, but you are not photographing the skin of their faces. In the end, the way to approach it is not to take pictures of their faces, but to consider how you take pictures of their inner selves.

 

Shortly after the disaster, there were times when the only way to make money was to take pictures and sell them immediately to magazines. For example, there was a woman in her 60s, Oikawa-san, who lost her husband in the tsunami. When I met her, I learned that her husband had been swept away by the tsunami. When she explained in detail about how it happened, she said that her daughter reached out to him, but the waves were too strong for her to touch him, so he was swept away by the tsunami and eventually died. At that time, when I was doing a collection for a magazine, there was this large tree with the remains of another husband who died of cancer. It was wrapped in white. That was the end of the interview. The job took about two hours, and I finished filming the interview, but for me personally, the job was over. I couldn’t help but be curious about the remains of the deceased husband. I told the editor-in-chief of the publishing company that I wanted to take pictures of the remains and Oikawa-san personally, and he agreed.

 

I took this picture with this camera, and I like the way it’s taken with my head down. For Oikawa-san, tears were welling up and I was having a hard time keeping myself together. At that time, I thought, this kind of pain, I can’t fathom it. I was filled with the feeling that the pain in this person’s heart would never be forgotten, and that she would have to carry it with her for the rest of her life. I was filled with this emotion. That’s why I later sent her this picture.

 

That’s when I started. 10 years will be up in February this year, and I’m close to passing my current post. I called Oikawa-san and said, “It's been almost 10 years.” It was February, so it will be 10 years in March. I said, “Can you tell me about how your past 10 years have been?” She said, “Sure.” She was so resolute. There was a cherry blossom tree just behind my head, and it was still a bud, but it hadn't bloomed yet. She has a very dignified face. In the interview, I said that I thought she had a strong way of life. When I asked her, “it’s been 10 years, Oikawa-san, but how were they? It was incredible, that she didn’t mention any hardships or difficulties. We did an amazing two-hour interview. Oikawa-san’s way of life, it seemed as though it stayed the same these past 10 years. I heard that after the earthquake, Oikawa-san’s house received supplies from all over Japan. She and her grandchildren were naturally grateful, and she said, “Everyone gave me so much. Even if I divide it among my grandchildren, my daughter-in-law, and my daughter, we still have a lot of cardboard boxes full of stuff. We have a lot of cardboard boxes full of food, clothes, and other things.” That’s how we should take care of her, isn’t it? During the two hours of Sugai-san’s interview, we took many images of Oikawa-san. During their discussion, Oikawa-san told Sugai-san that this was Kobe, how Kobe was. It’s that kind of layer of humanity. That’s why the approach was to take a picture of the remains here, and after that, it’s very important.

 

AJ: Let’s move on to the next question. Has your understanding of 3.11 and the Tohoku region changed as a result of working with the Kizuna Project? 

 

KS: Basically, my style [of photography] remained the same. However, thanks to the opportunity to participate in the Kizuna Project, I personally formed new bonds. Let me give you an example of one of them. This is a picture of Iwashiro’s sister and brother. Actually, I took this photo intuitively. Their grandfather built a playground for them here. He said, “This was a town where you could build a life, one by one. He put it up on this stump. It means that there will be more and more life to come, and that we have the strength to live even though there may be big obstacles. We are going to have a photo exhibition in Sendai in June, and when we had the exhibition in Iwate Prefecture last month, we sent a letter to the parents and the girl asking for their permission to display these photos. I sent a letter to the parents and the girl asking for their approval. The father sent a letter back to me, saying “if we can be of any use to you, please use it.” In that sense, I am very glad that I participated in this project because I think that I was able to make great connections with people through this photo exhibition project. Thank you very much.

 

AJ: Shishido-san, the nature of your career as a photographer has a lot to do with the United States. I guess you could say that the Kizuna Project is also about international exchange with the United States. Do you think that there is a continuum of international exchange? As a photographer, do you approach your photography with a sense of international exchange?

 

KS: I think the Kizuna Project is the start of what will become a very international project. There’s an American TV show called TED, right? T-E-D. I think that the Kizuna Project can also be connected to that. 

 

The Kizuna project in Chicago itself was very interesting in that the people of Chicago were taking up the issue of the earthquake. In the future, the global environment will be prone to typhoons, fires, and man-made environmental problems, and many other issues will appear on the earth. I believe that it will no longer be a cultural confrontation or a religious conflict. As Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “What is the most important thing for the world to do in response to violence?” Then, the Kizuna Project was able to reach out to the hearts of those who were in trouble, and the people of Chicago were paying attention to the project. The fact that this act was spread with King’s true compassion is also noteworthy, as it is an international exchange project.

 

RS: This girl’s father also said, “The Tohoku earthquake is fading away, and from now on, there will be earthquakes in Tokyo and other places to the west that will be bigger than the Tohoku earthquake.” I think it's getting harder and harder to pass on the memories of the disaster, that the memories will fade because of coronavirus and other things. In that sense, I think this kind of crisis is not limited to Japan, but is a common event all over the world. Through these photos, we hope to show people around the world the dangers of tsunami damage and how we, who experienced the earthquake, were so surprised. We hope to be able to take pictures for people around the world. I often hear that, so I’m trying to figure out what I can do about that.

 

KS: There is a basic principle that if people who live on earth change, that if humanity changes as one, society will change and the country will change. That’s what the Chicago project is about, isn’t it? That’s what I really think. 　

 

SS: Thank you very much. The next question is, do you have any particularly memorable moments or photos from your time working on the Kizuna Project?

 

KS: Of the many places, there is the one that left the strongest memory. It was actually during my time with Alex. It’s Yonezawa-san here. [Shishido-san shows an image he photographed] He said, “I've already tasted heaven and hell in one day,” didn't he?  

 

In the morning, he went to visit the shrine, and in the afternoon, he lost his younger brother and his parents in the earthquake. Then, when the tsunami hit the roof of his building on the third floor, he spent the night thinking that he had to survive. He just had to live. He left this place as his personal reminder of the disaster, didn’t he? There are so many emotions that people have experienced in the various photos that it is very difficult to choose just one, but each of the memories that have been provided to the Kizuna Project is filled with the thoughts and feelings of each person. I feel the dignity of these human beings.

 

SS: Thank you very much. Next, what was your impression when you saw the photo exhibition?

 

KS: I was impressed by the fact that the exhibition was held in Chicago, a place very far from Japan. I was very moved by the fact that the venue was filled with deep and compassionate hearts that encouraged people to share their sorrow as human beings. It was a very good place. It was a very good place, and I was able to feel the connection between people and their hearts.　

　

SS: Is there anything else you would like more people to know about 3.11? 

 

KS: I hope that the influence of the Chicago project will be so strong that it will be transmitted to the rest of the world. It is predicted that there will be a big earthquake in Japan in the future, and the scale of earthquake disasters in Japan will increase on a global scale. I think we have to think about how to convey the fear of earthquakes and tsunamis. 

 

SS: Thank you very much. The last question is that the Kizuna Project recently celebrated the 10th anniversary of the 3.11 earthquake. How do you think commemoration and remembrance of the disaster will change in the future?

 

KS: At the memorial ceremony, there was a lecture on a global story. I thought, “If people can just hear about it [the 3.11 disaster], we can transmit it more globally.” I thought to myself, “Wouldn’t it make the memorial ceremony even more meaningful?” 

SS: I think that’s all of the questions we had prepared. We were really looking forward to this conversation, so thank you very much for taking time out of your day today to speak with us.